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darkfox
10-26-2005, 01:42 PM
First it must be noted before anything that the swap requires fabrication. This is not simply a bolt-in swap. Automatic equipped cars do not come with the brackets attached to the frame for the manual mounts. Mount brackets must be fabricated from 1/8th inch or 1/4th inch steel and welded or bolted onto the frame of the car. Also, the old brackets for the automatic have to be cut off for the manual to fit properly into the bay. Lastly, five holes have to be drilled in the firewall for the clutch pedal and master cylinder assembly.

This swap was done with an HM282 with a Quad 4 bellhousing and the external clutch slave cylinder. The procedures for the HM282 w/ internal slave or the izuzu are similar, with some differences concerning how to hook up the hydraulic lines and shift cables (izuzu). Also the matching parts are somewhat different.

Items I used:

An HM282 Muncie/Getrag transmission from a 92 or previous year Quad 4
Hydraulic clutch assembly (includes master + slave cylinder and line) from a 1992 N-car
Clutch pedal from a 1992-1998 N-car
Shifter and shift cables from a 1992-1994 model N-Car
Flywheel from a vin code “A” 2.3L Quad 4 engine
New clutch, pressure plate, and throwout bearing for a vin code “A” 2.3L Quad 4 engine
Front transmission mount
Rear transmission mount
Left and right half-shafts from a manual equipped n-body. 89-94 will fit, as long as it had a getrag.
Intermediate shaft
Intermediate shaft to engine block bracket
2.5 quarts of synchromesh manual transmission fluid.
Transmission brackets cut from a donor car, or some thick steel handy. ;)

Tools you will need:
Flat head screwdriver
Crowbar
Jackstands
4lb hammer
Rubber mallet
Hand drill
Cobalt drill bit, preferably 7/16 of an inch or larger
MIG or Arc Welder
10mm hex socket (for the break calipers)
T57 Torx socket (for the wheel hubs)
Decent metric ratchet set, with 13, 15, 18, and 19mm deep sockets
Decent metric box wrench set
21mm ½ drive socket and a 32mm axle socket
breaker bar or impact wrench

Automatic transmission removal

You will need to remove the torque converter to drive plate bolts, bellhousing bolts, remove the CV axles, the left suspension support, shift linkage, transmission mount, transmission to engine block brace, all electrical and vacuum connections from the transmission before it can be dropped from the car.

Flexplate bolts: Support the car securely on jackstands. Underneath the car, remove the plastic cover that shields the bottom of the drive plate and torque converter. You will see the plastic cover on the driver side of the block by the oil pan, next to the transmission. There are 3 bolts holding on the torque converter; hold the flex plate from moving with a large screwdriver while loosening the bolts with an open end wrench. If I remember correctly they were 19mm bolts, but these may differ with year model or transmission type. All three bolts should come of easily.

Removal of CV axles: With the car still on jackstands, remove both front tires, brake calipers and rotors. You may want to support the calipers off the ground with a few blocks of wood so they do not hang from the brake lines. Now, you want to mark the position of the CV axle right above it on the body of the car so that when you install the transmission, you can line up the differential to this spot so you have proper driveline alignment.

The following process will work for both axles: use a screwdriver to keep the hub from rotating, and remove the nut from the end of the axle using a 32mm axle nut socket and a breaker bar or impact gun. Using a 4 lb hammer, knock the end of the axle loose from the hub. Remove the hub by removing the 3 Torx bolts holding in place and prying it off carefully. The 3 bolts should take a size T57 bit. You will have to remove the steering knuckle, but BEFORE YOU DO THIS mark the positions of the nuts/bolts with paint, so they are exactly in the same place when you reinstall them. If you do not, your wheel camber and wheel toe will be off when you reinstall! Remove the 2 steering knuckle nuts with a 21mm socket. The studs are splined so they will have to be struck out with a hammer. Pry the steering knuckle down until you can get the end of the axle out. Using the prybar, work the end between the CV housing and the transmission until the other end of the axle pops out.

Removal of driver side suspension support: Remove swaybar end link. MARK THE POSITION OF ALL BOLTS CONNECTING THE SUPPORT TO THE BODY OF THE CAR WITH PAINT. Remove all bolts connecting the suspension support to the body of the car. Remove the swaybar mount. Since the steering knuckle has been detached the steering knuckle, control arm, and engine cradle should drop as a unit.

Removal of electrical and vacuum connections: The transmission has 2 vacuum lines—one for engine vacuum from the throttle body, and one that is for ambient pressure. Remove the engine vacuum line from the vacuum modulator on the front of the transmission. The vacuum modulator will be on the driver side of the transmission, near the front. There are 3 electrical connections to be concerned with. The first is a plug above the vacuum modulator for the TCC and the ECM command for the shift solenoids. Remove this. The second is the shift position switch located near the back of the transmission on the driver side. Remove the connections from the back of this, and while you’re at it remove the shift cable. The last connection is for the speed sensor, located by the passenger side differential seal.

Additional hardware: There is a bracket on the passenger side, accessible from the wheel well, linking in the tranny to the block. Remove it after the CV axles have been removed. Also, do not forget the lines from the transmission to the radiator. Some cars also have a bracket linking the exhaust manifold to the oil pan. This should also be unbolted. It will fall when the transmission is removed.

Remove all bellhousing bolts from around the transmission. It is imperative that the transmission still be connected via the mount, or you risk personal injury! The last step of removal is the transmission mount: Be sure you are NOT UNDERNEATH THE CAR while removing the mount and the bracket. Make sure the car is securely supported. The automatic transmission mount is on the driver side of the car, visible from the driver side front wheel well. It is easiest to remove the bolts connecting the mount to the frame (4), and then those connecting it to the transmission(4). They are hard to get to, but possible if you have several open-end or box wrenches. These bolts are either 17 or 19mm bolts, I don’t remember off hand… Don’t bother messing with the bolt connecting the rubber insert to the bracket, it’s a pain to remove and unnecessary.

With everything out, you should begin to pry the transmission from the block with a crowbar. Upon separation, the transmission may fail to drop out of the car. A stout kick will shake it loose and it will fall.

Clutch Installation

You will have to remove the stock driveplate. There are six bolts in the center of the drive plate that have to be removed with an impact wrench or a breaker bar. They are fixed with threadlocker.

Before you install the flywheel, have it resurfaced.

When you install the flywheel, do not reuse the bolts that attached the drive plate to the crank. Since the flywheel is thicker, you will need longer size bolts. You should be able to get the proper size bolts from a dealer. USE NEW BOLTS. Use threadlocker blue on the flywheel-to-crank bolts and torque them down to specification (22 ft lbs and then an additional 45 degrees).

Next you must install the clutch disk and the pressure plate. The clutch disk sits in between the plate and the flywheel. There are 6 bolts that attach the pressure plate to the flywheel—do not tighten these down at first! Make them just barely hand tight. You need to be able to move the clutch disk so you can center it. Use an alignment tool to center the disk—it will fit into the teeth of the clutch disk and the recess and the end of the crank, perfectly aligning the clutch disk. Once this is one, remove one pressure plate bolt, put threadlocker blue on the threads, and reinstall. Do this in sequence for all the bolts. Now torque the 6 pressure plate bolts to spec (15 ft lbs, then an additional 30 degrees). Now remove the alignment tool.

Tranny Installation

Before you install the transmission, make sure it is in good working order. Check the clutch fork for rust and wear. Install the throwout bearing over the input shaft, making sure the two teeth on the clutch fork are placed between the notches on the throwout bearing. You also should grease these areas with lithium or moly grease.

There is a bracket for the automatic tranny mount that is welded to the body of the car. This needs to be cut off completely so the transmission will fit! The endplate of the transmission will not clear this piece if it is not removed.

The transmission has to be installed from underneath the car. It cannot be lowered from the top. I do not recommend being under the car trying to benchpress the unit up onto the engine while the whole car is supported by jackstands. The car can fall on you and kill you.

The safest way to do it is to place the transmission under the car, and hoist it up from the top. You can do this with a variety of methods—a engine crane, a hydraulic jack, whatever you can rig up. Personally, I removed the hood, removed the brake master cylinder for room, and put the tranny under the car. Then I lowered the entire front of the car to the ground, so I could reach down through the engine bay and grab both ends of the tranny by hand. I lifted it up and got the spline on the input shaft to go into the clutch. Then I proceeded to replace all the bellhousing bolts and torque them down.

Mount Installation

There is a front and a rear mount for the transmission. The rear mount attaches the transmission to the body of the car, the front attaches it to the suspension support. I recommend getting new mounts and brackets from GM

There are two brackets that must be welded onto the frame of the car/engine cradle for the mounts, and you will have to get these out of a junkyard car. You will need to cut them out yourself. There is no way to get them through any other means. GM does not supply them and no aftermarket company makes them, because they are considered part of the frame. If you can’t get the ones out of a junkyard, you will have to fabricate them.

Now, this is critical. You need to make sure your driveline alignment is correct. Position the transmission so the differential is in line with the marks you made before you removed the cv axles. Now hold it there with jacks, put on your mounts and mark spots on the frame so you can weld/bolt on the mount brackets you cut off/fabricated.

Hydraulic Clutch System Installation

The easiest way to install the hydraulic clutch system is simply to buy the whole system as a unit from GM. It cost me 158 dollars, and you get the slave, master, line, and reservoir, all assembled as a system—and the system comes pre-filled and bled. Just bolt it on and go. Otherwise you will have to put pieces together, fill the system with brake fluid, and bleed it—this is a real pain.

You will have to drill 1 large hole and 4 small holes in the firewall to install the clutch pedal and master cylinder. I used a 1 ½ inch holesaw and a 5/8ths inch cobalt drill bit. You will have to remove the rubber firewall insulation on the driver side. The location of the holes are already marked on the firewall on auto cars, but the holes are not drilled. Just drill the holes where they are marked.

Now, once the drilling is done, you will have to remove the windshield wiper motor to access the portion of the firewall where the clutch master cylinder will be located. Once this is done, you can install the clutch pedal from inside the car, running the 4 studs on the back of the unit through the holes in the firewall. You might want to have somebody hold in position while you work from the engine compartment. Screw nuts on the two bottom studs. Now take your hydraulic clutch assembly, route master cylinder and the reservoir through the mess of cabling and lines around the driver side of the engine compartment. The reservoir should sit on the upper far left side of the engine bay, in the little cove right in the corner where you see the wiring harness pass through. Place the master cylinder piston rod through the large hole and the plastic flange of the master cylinder over the top 2 studs. Screw the nuts onto these top studs. Now, from inside the car, place the piston rod over the stud on the pedal arm. It should be held on by a rubber grommet, depending on what year model pedal you are using. If you are using a 96+ year model pedal, remove the spring from the pedal before installation.

Back in the engine bay, install the slave cylinder on the transmission. Make sure the fork is pulled all the way back. The piston rod is held back by 2 little plastic straps. Leave it that way! Do not remove them, install them how they are. These will snap when you depress the clutch for the first time to set the freeplay in the clutch system.

Oh, lastly, you’ll need to make the brake pedal smaller to allow enough room for the clutch pedal. I cut 1 ½ inches of the end with a hacksaw.

Shifter and Shift Cables

You will have to use the shifter and shift cables from a 92’ year model or above n-body. Depending on what year model transmission you have you may have to change the studs on the shift linkage brackets on the transmission to properly fit the cables. You can get new studs at the dealer.

The 92+ shifter assembly will bolt right into the interior of the 96-98 cars. You will have to adapt a new cover and shift boot for use with the newer consoles. 96+ shifters will not work with the cables. Also, the 96+ shift cover and boot are too small to use with the 92-94 shifter.

Electronics

The speed sensor on the getrag will work with newer ECM’s, but unless you have a 3.94 gear ratio the speedometer will be off because of the ECM calibration. You will need to splice the old-style plug into the harness. The speed sensor is located on the differential. The other connection on the getrag is the reverse gear sensor. The reverse light is controlled by the shift selector. Cut the appropriate wire and splice into the connector, and run a black wire to ground.

You will have to hook the shift selector back up to the harness, and cut the purple and yellow wires (they are the thickest of the bunch) and connect them too each other. This is your park neutral setup, and you have just bypassed it so you can start your car! If you really want to get fancy you can hook these into the clutch safety switch, if you choose to install it.

Now, you can keep the auto ecm, but you will just have to remember that you will throw codes for the transmission. If you are ok with this, you will have to remember that the shift selector must always be in DRIVE. This will allow you to rev past the 4000 RPM rev limit the 96+ up cars have while the car is in park. :rolleyes:

Intermediate axle and transmission to engine block support

The intermediate axle is set up with a bearing and a bracket on the end to brace it up against the engine to prevent harmonic vibration of the intermediate axle. The bearing allows the axle to spin freely inside the bracket support. These you should have gotten from a donor car in the yard or from a dealer. You want to use a bracket from a 96-98 2.4 5-speed, as the older brackets will not bolt onto the block.

The rest of the car.

That was all the major stuff. You have to simply reinstall everything else. Installation is the inverse of removal for the CV axles and suspension systems. I’m sure you know how to put the brakes and wheels back on. :D Remember to line up the bolts for the steering support and steering knuckle with the marks you made.

Make sure to follow these torque specs:

Suspension support – tighten center, then front, then rear. All 89 ft lbs.
Steering knuckle bolts -- 133 ft lbs.
Hub bolts -- 70 ft lbs.
Axle nut – 185 ft lbs.

And you should be done… time to test her out.

Start the car, with it still on jackstands, very carefully let off on the clutch in 1st gear. One of the wheels should be spinning. (it's an open differential) Go through all your gears carefully. Listen for grinds or any strange noises.

If all is well, put the car on pavement and test the clutch. Start the car, put it into 5th, and without touching the gas pedal dump the clutch. If the car does not immediately die, the clutch was installed improperly. This will also test your mounts. Check to see if anything broke after your car gets done jerking across your driveway. :D

If this checks out ok, you’re good to go. Enjoy your new 5-speed.

darkfox
10-26-2005, 01:50 PM
if i forgot anything let me know. it was a lot to remember and write down.

SoLid PrAnkstA
10-27-2005, 09:43 PM
fairly close to the top, but an easier way to get the axle nut off... leave the brakes and rotors on, and have an amigo hold the pedal down. even sticking mr. cheater bar on there would work, if you can stick it up against something (front of the seat?).

darkfox
10-27-2005, 10:42 PM
i actually had to do that to torque them to 185 ft lbs.... even with the gear engaged i could only get like 80 ft lbs, then the wheel moved. :rolleyes:

WoR
09-06-2006, 03:39 AM
Was this done to an 92 or up car? Just curious since most the parts listed where 92 and up. I'm wanting to do this to my '91 cause my auto has no reverse and didnt know if i should find a clutch pedal and hydryalics from a 89-91. Also, if i found a donar car to use the whole subframe what other gm bodies will bolt up to an n-body "body" or will only an n-body subframe work.

darkfox
10-09-2006, 08:50 PM
it was done to a 97. the unibody is virtually identical to a 92-94 car. dunno about the subframe.

geo
10-15-2006, 10:39 PM
What is the standard for the Ho trans and the final drive?

WoR
10-15-2006, 10:45 PM
3.61

Fish
10-16-2006, 02:34 PM
3.61

Changed to 3.94 in '92.

QUAD 4 FAQ's - A Community for the GM Quad 4 and Twin Cam Engines (http://www.quad4forums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7)

See post #4 ^

SoLid PrAnkstA
06-02-2007, 06:47 PM
anyone ever performed this joy to a 91 or older n-body?

ronnieb55
06-02-2007, 07:03 PM
i have on my 97

Calais_man442
06-10-2007, 11:18 AM
anyone ever performed this joy to a 91 or older n-body?
I have on my 91 I-Series. All parts were a direct bolt in for it. No fabrication. I had an 89 I-Series for a donor.:rock:

Kevin

jean-seb
06-10-2007, 03:32 PM
Hi Darkfox !
First...amazing write-up !

Second, I'd like to know if it would be possible to fit...

- a transmission from a 1997 Grand Am (not a Getrag) that had a 2.4TC

- in a 1995 Grand Am that has a 2.3LO ?

I'm just not sure if the bellhousing would bolt onto my block...

Thanks for any help,
Jean-Sebastien

darkfox
06-10-2007, 06:10 PM
you should be able to do that. all quad 4's had the same bellhousing.

jean-seb
06-10-2007, 07:50 PM
thanks !

right after I wrote that question, i found out on mantapart's website that the 95' 2.3L clutch and flywheel are the same than the 96+ 2.4L.

So, it should get interesting !

Thanks again,
J-S

Mr_Efficiency
07-01-2007, 04:14 PM
I never noticed before that you say at the start that all cars require the welding of the front tranny mount to the frame, i just thought I'd point out that only 92+ cars need that mount, everyone else with the older cars, the only modification they have is drill the holes in the firewall and the rest is bolt on.
The only reason that front tranny mount is there is because in 92 they changed the front engine mount.... basically if you have the mount on the passenger side frame rail you need the two tranny mounts, if you have the front mount on the center of the motor you dont need the second tranny mount, you only need the rear tranny mount and it is already there, no welding required.
I guess you could run the second tranny mount on the older cars but why have 4 motor mounts, lol GM only saw the need for 3 and thats good enough for me.

quad4traitor
10-11-2007, 11:01 PM
i ended up having 2 solid mounts in some totally NOT stock locations.... :eek:

jean-seb
11-16-2007, 09:28 PM
Hey Darkfox ! Me again !

Just a few other questions for you here. Is the 3.61 ratio the one I have to get if I'm looking for top speed.......errr....fuel economy ?

And are Getrags from 89-91 Berettas (L-body) compatible with the 92-98 N-bodies ? Different brackets or not ?

Anyway, thanks in advance !

J-S

quad4traitor
11-16-2007, 10:24 PM
getrags from the 91 and previous will work, everything is the same. mounts are different but the casings are exactly the same so everything should bolt up.

dunno about fuel economy. there is an faq with the gear ratios somewhere.

jean-seb
11-16-2007, 10:42 PM
aka darkfox for all of you newb fools!

^^--- I saw that !!! lol

Thanks again ! 5-speed forever !!!!! (starting next spring though...)

J-S

SoLid PrAnkstA
12-17-2007, 08:27 PM
quick question for those that have done this on a 91 or older n-body... preferably a 90 grand am... is there any mount modification made (ie - welding)? if not i'll be starting wednesday night. also, do i have to drop the subframe to squeeze the auto out? those are the two big things i'm worried about... the rest should be easy, if lifting a trans that weighs more than i can bench press is easy :)

jean-seb
12-17-2007, 08:45 PM
quick question for those that have done this on a 91 or older n-body... preferably a 90 grand am... is there any mount modification made (ie - welding)? if not i'll be starting wednesday night. also, do i have to drop the subframe to squeeze the auto out? those are the two big things i'm worried about... the rest should be easy, if lifting a trans that weighs more than i can bench press is easy :)

I haven't done it....yet.....but I know that there is mount modification on your year of Grand Am, it's bolt-on.

And yes you do have to drop the driver side subframe to get your original tranny out, unless you wanna try and bend it far enough so it clears.... ;) j/k

So the only thing to remember is to mark the relation of the strut/spindle assembly with white paint so you don't have to get an alignment done when you're finished with your conversion.

Keep us posted on how it works for you ! :rock:

SoLid PrAnkstA
12-17-2007, 08:57 PM
i kinda do alignments for a living, so the spindle/strut isn't an issue. i will mark the location of the subframe when i take it down - i don't want to align this thing like a newer VW, do i?

jean-seb
12-17-2007, 09:50 PM
i kinda do alignments for a living, so the spindle/strut isn't an issue. i will mark the location of the subframe when i take it down - i don't want to align this thing like a newer VW, do i?

I see..... I didn't know that, but now I do. :)

And what about those VWs ? Are they pains-in-the-butt ?

SoLid PrAnkstA
12-17-2007, 10:01 PM
front camber adjustments are a "subframe shift" and rear camber/toe adjustments are done by an "axle shift" talk about stupid. and that's just the new ones, the older beetles are even worse by 100 times!

but enough about that. i'll take plenty of notes when i do this to mine, and add what i can :)

racin17
12-19-2007, 05:11 PM
If applicable to your application, I had to weld in a motor mount on my '88 Corsica for the "tranny mount" on the driver's side. I'm thinking that mount MAY have been a Quad-4-only mount?? Do you have this two-eared tranny mount on the "frame rail" on your car? (Big round cast iron mount slides up into it) If not, you'll need to add that.

Otherwise, the front mount comes with the engine subframe, and the passenger's side mount bolts into the universal mounting points that all those cars seemed to use in that generation (regardless of engine). So you should be fine for those two.

Jeff

jean-seb
12-19-2007, 05:21 PM
The difference might be that you have a L-body (Corsica/Beretta). I think there is a difference with the mounts, although the bellhousing of the transmissions are identical.

my little 2 cents

SoLid PrAnkstA
12-19-2007, 05:52 PM
there's the driver side/rear trans mount, the front mount, and the one on the pass. side (in the middle of the timing housing). at this point, it looks like the trans mount is in the same place on the auto and the manual, but it's still in the car.

it looks like this will be pretty simple, just tedious as i forgot my ratcheting wrenches at work *angry face*. and it's not hot enough out to sweat out all of the tea i've been drinking, so i have to pee every hour...

also, is there a drain plug for the tranny pan on this? i don't see one, but i'm trying not to make a mess.

jean-seb
12-19-2007, 06:16 PM
it looks like this will be pretty simple, just tedious as i forgot my ratcheting wrenches at work *angry face*. and it's not hot enough out to sweat out all of the tea i've been drinking, so i have to pee every hour...

also, is there a drain plug for the tranny pan on this? i don't see one, but i'm trying not to make a mess.

lol ! maybe you need a drain plug yourself ! j/k

Seriously, for the auto tranny you have to take the pan off, as there is no drain plug. There should still be some leftover fluid when you take the driveaxles out, so if you tilt the transmission it will come out and make a mess anyway. So better use large pieces of cardboard and trashbags... I know I always make a mess.

SoLid PrAnkstA
12-19-2007, 08:32 PM
i have a big tub for that, so i just took the pan off. damn olds and not incorporating a plug.

there's a cable going from this "hub" of throttle/speed cables into the top/front of the transmission, the pump area. i took it off of the "hub", so i can pull the whole cable out, but i have no idea if that is anything i should do with that...

buuuut now, we're about to drop the subframe to pull the transmission. wootems. so, um, does this beast come out of the wheel well? i figure i'm just going to remove those driver side bolts and let it hang, while holding it with a hoist. if i break anything, i'll be back :)

Calais_man442
12-20-2007, 03:46 PM
quick question for those that have done this on a 91 or older n-body... preferably a 90 grand am... is there any mount modification made (ie - welding)? if not i'll be starting wednesday night. also, do i have to drop the subframe to squeeze the auto out? those are the two big things i'm worried about... the rest should be easy, if lifting a trans that weighs more than i can bench press is easy :)

It was all direct bolt in on my 91 Calais, and since the Calais and Grand Am are basically identical under the hood, I’d say it will all be bolt in on your car as well. Just be sure you use the engine mount brackets that came with the donor engine. They are different lengths than the ones in there now. They shift the engine about an inch closer to the fire wall with the manual. They are even stamped “manual”, “automatic”, or “M”, “A”.

The only major surgery I ran into, was getting the holes cut in the right spot for the clutch master cyl. They HAVE to be in the right spot. If you get them off, it’s going to affect where your clutch pedal is inside the car. I suggest drilling that while the engine and trans. are out of the car. You’ll probably also want to remove the wiper motor assembly, so you’ve got plenty of room to mark and drill right there.

I dropped the sub frame completely, and took it out from under the car. Then I just dropped everything out the bottom. Fairly easy that way. At the very least, you’ll have to drop the drivers side frame to get the auto. out.

You can remove the throttle valve cable from the car after you get the auto. trans out. That’s the cable you speak of that attaches to the top of the trans. Open up the box that all the throttle and cruise cables run into, and you’ll see that it just needs to be unhooked from one of the pulleys in that box.

Kevin

SoLid PrAnkstA
12-20-2007, 05:35 PM
man, getting that center console out was a little humbling. only about 10,000 screws to take out. i've spent today getting that out and the linkage run.

jean-seb
12-20-2007, 05:57 PM
Originally posted by Calais_man442
You can remove the throttle valve cable from the car after you get the auto. trans out. That’s the cable you speak of that attaches to the top of the trans. Open up the box that all the throttle and cruise cables run into, and you’ll see that it just needs to be unhooked from one of the pulleys in that box.


Thanks for chiming in here, I didn't know about this as the '95 4speed 4T60-E is different.

Originally posted by SoLid PrAnkstA
man, getting that center console out was a little humbling. only about 10,000 screws to take out. i've spent today getting that out and the linkage run.

It always takes longer than it's supposed to, at least for me...and also I like to stare sometimes, looking at stuff in the car or under the hood instead of grabbing a wrench and getting to work ! Hahaha !

Don't despair man, you're getting there ! 5-speed baby, yeahhh !

J-S

Mr_Efficiency
12-21-2007, 12:03 AM
Just to set this strait there is no welding required at all for this swap. some cars 92+ have a front trans mount as well as rear, you dont need that front mount for a 91 and older N body, its been said in this thread a few times now and people keep bringing it back up.

About the sub frame, when i did mine I undid the subframe and removed the sway bar, drive shaft nut, then undid the tie rod and the three nuts up top for the strut and removed everything in one piece. since you are removing half the subframe the front motor mount pretty much goes with it so you need something under the motor to hold it up. I used a jack and lowered the motor as far as it would go then undid the trans and it was on the floor... its practically there anyways once you lower that end of the motor, the motor has quite a bit of swing off just the passenger rear mount.
From here its cake, bolt on flywheel/clutch etc, trans onto motor and get the motor back up in place (roughly) then put the subframe back on but dont tighten all the bolts until you put the front crossmember on that the front motor mount attaches to. this crossmemeber pretty much squares up the front end and puts everything back to were its susposed to be, I've done this twice now and both times its come out fine and I didnt have to adjust anything once i got it on the alignment rack.
The first time i did it I tightened everyting down then put the crossmember on and it didnt fit right and my wheelbase was 1/2 short on the one side, I loosen'd off the subfrrame and put that crossmember on again and this time when it was all tightened down everything was good to go.

Also when pulling a tranny I found it a ton easier on yourself if you remove the intake and obviously starter(since you have to get at the torque converter bolts) without the intake its tons easier to work around, just make sure to put a strip of duct tape or something over the ports so you dont get and shit down there and cause any damage.

SoLid PrAnkstA
12-21-2007, 12:46 AM
use the hole in the bottom of the auto bellhousing to loosen the torque converter bolts. you can take those loose before you even remove any of the bellhousing bolts even (except the one that holds the cover on).

i removed the rear crossmember for the subframe, not the front. held the engine up with a hoist on that rear hook.

other than drilling the firewall, there will be no fabrication at all on this. jon makes it sound too hard.

SoLid PrAnkstA
12-26-2007, 05:31 PM
has anyone else had an anomoly when torquing the flywheel bolts? it takes more than 22 ft-lbs to get through the thread lock, so it's hard to tell when they're mated to the surface and what the actual 22 ft-lbs is...

DOHC_tuner
12-26-2007, 11:18 PM
Is this realy bad? I missed that sucker

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/1/web/2557000-2557999/2557055_113.jpg

Mr_Efficiency
12-26-2007, 11:42 PM
use the hole in the bottom of the auto bellhousing to loosen the torque converter bolts. you can take those loose before you even remove any of the bellhousing bolts even (except the one that holds the cover on).

I did the tourqe converter bolts through the starter hole, tons easier

SoLid PrAnkstA
12-27-2007, 08:19 AM
i didn't take my starter off, which is probably tons harder :p

SoLid PrAnkstA
01-07-2008, 06:56 PM
quick question, why are there 4 wires going into the backup light switch for the auto, but only a plug on the trans for 2 on the manual? second question, how does one get ahold of that harness for the backup switch?

jean-seb
01-07-2008, 08:34 PM
quick question, why are there 4 wires going into the backup light switch for the auto, but only a plug on the trans for 2 on the manual? second question, how does one get ahold of that harness for the backup switch?

On the auto trans, the back-up light switch also serves as the transaxle position switch, which is hooked up to your ignition switch so it doesn't start in positions other than park or neutral. That would explain the extra wires. (Just so you know, I'm not totally sure about this one, so hopefully someone will correct me).

Next; you say; "but only a plug on the trans for 2 on the manual". Are you saying on the back of the transmission itself ? If yes, that's the speed sensor. Are the wires purple and yellow ?

For the harness, the junkyard is your best bet. Other than that, GM dealer maybe ...?!?!?

SoLid PrAnkstA
01-07-2008, 11:06 PM
i know the speed sensor, i have to splice some more wire in there, though. if i remember correctly, that one is the purple/yellow wire. but i meant there are only 2 wires for the backup light switch on the manual. i also am not sure what wires i should use of those 4...

also, from the auto shifter, some linkage goes up near the ignition, do i do anything with that?

isn't the neutral safety switch the big boxy thing near the top/back of the auto transaxle?

jean-seb
01-08-2008, 01:01 AM
errrr..... you got me cornered here...as there are differences between the 90 and 95, as well as the 3spd and 4spd...

Anybody else ???

Calais_man442
01-08-2008, 01:38 PM
i know the speed sensor, i have to splice some more wire in there, though. if i remember correctly, that one is the purple/yellow wire. but i meant there are only 2 wires for the backup light switch on the manual. i also am not sure what wires i should use of those 4...

also, from the auto shifter, some linkage goes up near the ignition, do i do anything with that?

isn't the neutral safety switch the big boxy thing near the top/back of the auto transaxle?

You’re making me glad I had a full donor car for parts.:D I just swapped out the engine wiring harnesses. But I understand that it’s not easy to get a hold of the wiring harness for a manual car anymore. And I hear GM wants a BUNCH for a new one.

The biggest pain I had with the wiring was I had to add all the ABS wires from the auto harness to the manual one. That was one HELL of a mess. Very confusing after I unwrapped the entire thing. I couldn’t have done it without the service manual. If you don’t have one for your car, I strongly suggest you get one, or get some one that has one to scan you some pages so you can see which wires you need.

The auto trans. set up has a cable that runs from the shifter to the key cylinder. It keeps you from turning the key to lock when the shifter is in any other position besides park. I remember I just unhooked it from the key cylinder end, and took it out with the shifter. I don’t remember exactly how it unhooks (that was about 7 years ago I did this swap) but if you can’t figure it out, I’ll dig out some old parts, look in my book, and dig around in the car to refresh my memory if you need me to.

Don’t get discouraged, this swap is WELL worth it. I’ve probably said it somewhere on this board before, but my I-Series dropped 1.1 sec, and gained 4+ mph in the ¼ just from swapping in a 5 spd!

Kevin

SoLid PrAnkstA
01-08-2008, 07:57 PM
i have a shop manual, it's for a calais, so a little different, but not much. there are just too damn many wires on the diagrams and i hadn't found the backup lamp switch on it.

SoLid PrAnkstA
02-22-2008, 12:36 AM
okay, i thought i'd make a small list of the parts i had to find for this on my '90 grand am. here goes:
- transmission, duh
- clutch, flywheel, throw out bearing, fork, etc.
- clutch pedal (brake pedal is optional, can be cut to fit)
- clutch master cylinder and slave cylinder.
- both axles
- shifter linkage, don't forget the little piece that clamps it to the transmission (looks like a wingnut, kinda)
- shifter assembly (w/ knob and boot and the clips that hold the linkage to the assembly frame)
- transmission mount
- harness that plugs into the backup light switch. here's a picture of what mine looks like, from a 93 GTZ: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v378/SoLid_PrAnkstA/90gase/DSC00282.jpg you'll need to splice that onto the old harness

i think that's it. darkfox's instructions worked the same for the most part.

quad4traitor
02-22-2008, 12:04 PM
i forgot that little wingnut looking thing myself. IT SUCKS TO TRY TO FIND ANYWHERE!!!

quad4traitor
02-22-2008, 12:14 PM
other than drilling the firewall, there will be no fabrication at all on this. jon makes it sound too hard.

sorry but i had to actually weld up some mounts, heh. i'm glad you didn't have to weld anything... wish i had it that easy.

it's better that way anyway since you don't have to worry so much about getting the mounts in the right place so you have the proper drivetrain alignment, either.

if i get another quad i will make sure its a 91 or previous year model... it sounds like a lot of things are easier with these cars. its hard to find one that old that isn't suffering from rust problems, though.

96Z26
04-24-2008, 07:42 PM
This was a very good and through post. I have a 96 Beretta with the 4T60E transmission. What, if anything, would be different when doing this swap on a L body car?

randizzle
04-24-2008, 08:33 PM
well the fact that you don't have a quad 4 would make it quite different I would assume.

quad4traitor
04-24-2008, 10:18 PM
ouch.

but seriously, your bellhousing is different than the quad 4 housing. if you can find a getrag with a v6 bellhousing, i don't see a whole lot of reason why it should be too different other than a clutch/flywheel specific to the V6 and perhaps a different master/slave clutch setup.

96Z26
04-25-2008, 07:59 AM
Yeah, I figured as much. I was just wondering if anyone was familiar with it. Thanks.

96Z26
04-25-2008, 07:06 PM
What does the mount that you have to fabricate look like? I can't find a manual trans at the j/y and have no idea what it looks like. Pictures?

SoLid PrAnkstA
04-25-2008, 07:16 PM
that part he had to "fabricate" were just 2 metal "tabs" that the mount bolts through. the mount is a round piece attached to a flat or L-shaped piece, depending on the transmission. inside the round metal part is a rubber bushing that the bolt goes through. i'll draw a picture if i have a chance!

alas, a picture! the top is the mount, arrows show where the bolts go into the trans. there's a big bolt that goes through the hole in the rubber part (the round part). that long bolt goes through the tabs that are welded to the chassis (the bottom part are the tabs it mounts to)

96Z26
04-29-2008, 06:30 PM
Ah, that makes sense. What are the dimensions on the piece? Also, wouldn't it be better to have that mount as a solid piece, as opposed to two separate pieces?

SoLid PrAnkstA
04-29-2008, 07:03 PM
the piece welded to the frame? it might be one piece for all i know, i didn't really pay attention. maybe just a square piece cut up a bit. it's probably about a 3x6 piece, but i'm not sure of actual dimensions.

jean-seb
09-13-2008, 03:35 PM
Hey guys !

I'm about 5/6th of the way into my tranny swap on my '95 Grand Am. I chose to go with a '90 Getrag (3.61) but the only problem I ran into so far, is the shift cables. They came with the transmission and they are too short !

Now, I remember that I've seen, in this post, a statement about the fact that there was two positions on the older 88-91 mounts, one for auto and the other one for manual. I don't have that option on my '95.

So does that mean that the shift cables on the 92-94 N-Bodies (Getrag-equipped) are longer ? Would that solve my latest issue ?

Quad4traitor; any problems like this on your '97 ?

Thanks in advance for your reply !!!

J-S
p.s. I can't wait to have it running, and that's all thanks to you guys ! :rock: :rock: :rock:

quad4traitor
09-13-2008, 05:51 PM
you would need the 92+ shift cables, yes.

jean-seb
09-13-2008, 06:11 PM
Thanks man ! What a relief !

:)
J-S

Calais_man442
09-13-2008, 10:16 PM
Just make sure you get the cables from a Grand Am. I’ve been messing with shift cables lately. I found out the other night that 92 cables from a Beretta are 1” too short to fit in a 93 Achieva. Other wise they would have bolted right in. I think GM likes doing little stupid stuff like this to aggravate us parts swapper types.:mad:

What did you do about the lack of a front trans. mount on the 90 trans?

Kevin


1990 Calais Quad442 H.O. 15.07 @ 93.93mph
1991 Calais I-Series H.O. 5 speed conversion. 15.05 @ 93.18mph
1992 Beretta GTZ (too many goodies to list) 15.43 @ 95.99mph
1992 Sonoma 2.8L 5speed
http://www.geocities.com/calais_man442/TheWmachineCalaissite

jean-seb
09-13-2008, 10:55 PM
Thanks Kevin.
Yeah, I took my shifter and clutch pedal out of 92-95 Grand Ams just to avoid running into those types of problems, but not the cables. :mad: Oh well...

For the front mount, I was working on that today actually. I used a mount out of a 94 Beretta (I think so...) and used a threaded hole on the 90 trans to bolt the top eyelet on. The bottom two holes on the mount will be bolted to a bracket I'll start fabricating tomorrow and will be attached to four bolts on the endplate of the Getrag.

Here's a quick pic of the mount in place.

http://www.quad4forums.com/forums/photoplog/images/3119/1_frontmount.jpg

In red is the bracket I'll fabricate (kinda hard to make it look good with Paint, hehe) out of 1/8" steel. I wish I had another option but I don't. :o

J-S

EDIT 2 year later ;)
Here's a pic of the adapter I fabricated to install a front mount on a 91- Getrag.
http://memimage.cardomain.com/member_images/1/web/2653000-2653999/2653592_110_full.jpg

Calais_man442
09-14-2008, 03:32 PM
Looks like a good plan to me. Let us know how it turns out.:beer:

Kevin

jean-seb
09-22-2008, 07:51 PM
Hey guys,
I need a favor !

I need to know what the part numbers are for the shift cables of a 92-94 Grand Am. Or the serial number of 92-94 GA with a 5-speed HO... this would be used to find the part numbers.

Please !!!!!!